Ruth Bader Ginsburg remembers how hard it was to find a job after finishing school.
Graduating from Columbia Law School tied for No. 1 in her class and serving as a member of the law review make for a strong resume. But the year was 1959, and Ginsburg said employers were very open about “three strikes’’ against her.
She was Jewish. She was a woman. And she was a mother.
It took a law professor promising a backup “man’’ in case Ginsburg failed, and the threat he would never again recommend another Columbia graduate before a federal judge agreed to offer her a clerkship.
“I remain an ardent feminist,’’ said Ginsburg, who was nominated to the Supreme Court by President Clinton more than three decades later, becoming the second woman to ever serve on the high court.
Ginsburg addressed more than 250 students at a UCDC Monday Night Forum, discussing topics ranging from same-sex marriage to the stash of “Notorious RBG’’ t-shirts she distributes to friends.
The 81-year-old Justice, who is serving in her 22nd year on the court, insisted that she has no plans to retire early in order to let President Obama nominate a replacement. She acknowledged pressure coming from some liberals to step down, and singled out Erwin Chemerinsky, the founding Dean of the University of California, Irvine School of Law as being the “loudest’’ voice.
“Who do you think could be nominated and confirmed – at this time – who you’d rather see on the court?’’ she asked.
Wall Street Journal Supreme Court reporter Jess Bravin moderated the discussion, noting in his introduction that Ginsburg has been compared to civil rights advocate Thurgood Marshall, the first African American to serve on the court.
Ginsburg told students the comparison makes her uncomfortable because of one essential difference between their struggles.
“His life was in danger every day. Mine was not,’’ she said.
Ginsburg suggested that the court may weigh in on same-sex marriage in the future, but said it had not done so yet because virtually all of the federal court decisions have thus far agreed that state bans are unconstitutional.
“If any one of these (courts) comes out the other way, then there will be pressure on the court to take this case,’’ she said.
On another emotional social issue, Ginsburg elaborated on comments she has made about Roe v. Wade – the landmark 1973 decision that upheld a woman’s right to a legal abortion – in which she had suggested that the court may have gone too far.
Though she was not on the court at the time, Ginsburg said the Texas prohibition on abortion which was before the court was clearly unconstitutional. She said she supported the decision and implied that she favored laws protecting choice. But by issuing such a sweeping decision that prohibited nearly all restrictions on abortion, Ginsburg said the Justices may have done a disservice to the pro-choice movement by cutting short what was a lively political debate on the issue, removing it from state legislatures around the country and creating an easy target for opponents.
Instead of having to face pro-choice movements around the country, pro-life groups focused on “nine elderly men,’’ prompting decades-long efforts to work around restrictions and find ways to limit abortion rights.
Asked by a student how the court remains functional despite its wide ideological differences -- and what lessons other branches of government might learn -- Ginsburg said Justices agree far more than they disagree.
They shake hands and greet each other every time they meet, looking each other in the eye to voice their disagreements. While they may not always respect another’s legal conclusions, Ginsburg said, “what we revere is the institution for which we work.’’
She said it would be a mistake to allow live television coverage of the court’s proceedings, saying that she feared the public would draw the wrong conclusion from lawyers’ performances which have very little to do with how a case is decided. Transcripts and opinions from trial and appellate courts and reams of legal briefs are the substance that shape decisions, not the 30 minutes allotted to each side during courtroom sessions.
“There’s a lot crammed into our head when we get on that bench,’’ she said. “I’m afraid if it was televised people would get the wrong impression of what an appeal is.’’
Ginsburg was asked about her attendance in October at the New York Metropolitan Opera’s opening of “The Death of Klinghoffer,’’ which is based on the Palestinian Liberation Front’s hijacking of the cruise ship Achille Lauro, and the murder of Leon Klinghoffer, a 69-year-old, wheelchair-bound, American Jew. Calling it exploitation of an act of terror, some Jewish groups as well as former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani protested the same performance Ginsburg attended.
Ginsburg said the criticism is misplaced, noting that the show did not glorify the terrorists and stating empathically: “It is not anti-semitic.’’
Though Ginsburg’s deliberate demeanor and soft voice highlighted the age difference between the Justice and her audience – she is as old if not older than many students’ grandparents – she said she is more amused than bothered by recent pop culture portrayals of her and the court.
“My grandchildren love it,’’ she said, calling comedian John Oliver’s recent portrayal of the court as a bunch of dogs “hilarious’’ and recalling numerous t-shirts that have made fun of her even before the “Notorious RGB’’ shirts hit the market.
“People don’t think we even have cell phones,’’ she said of the Justices at one point, pulling out her purse to find the two phones she carries, an iPhone 5 and a Blackberry (she couldn’t find either in her oversized purse.)
Asked by a student the best advice she ever received, Ginsburg said it came from her mother-in-law on her wedding day. As she was preparing for the ceremony to be held at her in-law's home, Ginsburg said her mother- in- law brought her into the bedroom, and showed her a pair of earplugs.
“Every once in a while it helps to be a bit deaf,’’ Ginsburg said.
--Marc Sandalow